The Reverse Mullet Healthcare Podcast
Ellen Brown, Justin Politi, and Dave Pavlik bring their 90 collective years of healthcare experience to BP2 Health where they're on a mission to effect real change in the industry. Connect with BP2 Health Here: https://bp2health.com/contact/
The Reverse Mullet Healthcare Podcast
No poking matter - Creating compassionate care delivery with Dr. Manju Dawkins
On the Road Edition - Live at ViVE, Episode 5
Physician burnout is tragic. With 1 in 5 physicians plan to leave HC altogether. Dr. Dawkins was in the same place but managed to turn that frown upside down and strive for real CHANGE in the industry through compassion. Something that in a way got forced out of her while practicing in our fragmented system.
Compassion for physicians. Enabling physicians to practice with compassion. So that they can again seek to understand where the other person is coming from in every situation. What is bringing them here? What is it that you need from me? How can I help them? She also became a leader in the AMAs Physicians Innovation Network to represent the healthcare workforce in providing input into the innovative solutions, including tech solutions that are being built.
Compassion for patients. With Over 60% of people are afraid of needles and about 1 in 4 people exhibiting a stress reaction to needles, including an automatic urge to avoid, she realized there was a big need. She put on her entrepreneurial hat and created @thimble which is on a mission to relieve the pain and fear from needles that prevents millions of patients from receiving care. And according to some studies that vaccination rates could increase by up to 16 percent from eliminating the fear.
Luckily Manju’s work has allowed her to fall in love with medicine. We hope that work can help other clinicians do the same!
I am Ellen Brown and I am here at five live day three, and I am here recording for the on the road to five edition of the reverse mullet healthcare podcast with my co host. Dave Pavlik here, and yes, we're dragging a little bit on day three.
Speaker 2:But here we are.
Speaker 1:I think, I think I can still get everyone's names correct today, right? It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Let's find out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we have Maju Dawkins here, who I luckily met at a. These events are super fun if you go with it right. So we both were at an AI Women's Summit on Sunday morning those of us who either took really early flights or were here overnight to be there and we met at this really great event. And then we connected and we got to have Manju come record with us, yeah, and by the way, for those of you listening, not watching.
Speaker 2:Manju and Ellen are both wearing the reverse mullet wigs, yes, and they look fantastic.
Speaker 1:I think I should See the problem is like I would have loved to brought this to the women's breakfast, but it just we did. But the problem is that some people just take life too seriously and we do not right. We do what we do because it's party in the front.
Speaker 2:And then what is in the back?
Speaker 1:We're going to get to now. So tell us why you're here at Vive and tell us what you do, and then we get to ask you the big question.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, I'm a board certified dermatologist, mom of two girls and the creator and co-founder of Thimble, but I'm actually here at Vive representing the American Medical Association and the Physicians Innovation Network. So kind of wearing two hats and a wig, not an impressive thing at all. She's wearing two hats and a wig yeah, two hats and a wig and and not impressive no, there's like more hats than that.
Speaker 2:There were children involved I know that that's another hat I was gonna say is that all, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah somehow we get these really impressive people on our podcast and, like I right, and usually they like us yeah, they do.
Speaker 1:Well, that's because you're funny yeah, I'm sure it's all.
Speaker 2:it's all'm just the token blonde in the room. I'm the eye candy. Yeah, yeah, yeah so anyways, keep going.
Speaker 1:Sorry, we totally interrupted you.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so my role with the American Medical Association is basically to help get the input of physicians and basically anybody from the healthcare workforce to have input into the solutions, all the tech solutions that are being built.
Speaker 1:Really, Sometimes those voices are. I didn't even know that thing. That was something that was happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because sometimes the tech gets built and then you get there and then nobody wants to use it.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I kind of thought that's what happened. Yeah, like my mind is a little blown right now, like I'm not lying. Adoption is low. Yeah, exactly For a lot of these, you know get the pain early, so you're here for that, and then you were on a panel, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's what the panel was about. Okay, and yes, we talked a little bit about. You know some of the challenges in medicine and what's going on, and you know one of the things that I talked about was the fact that one in five physicians plans to leave medicine in the coming years, and that is so scary.
Speaker 1:Oh dear, yeah, not because of retirement. Yes, and there's already a shortage, exactly Significant shortage. That's not good.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. You know, there's just, I think, a lot of feeling of misalignment with the. You know, medicine's changed a lot, it's become more corporatized, and so what are the things that we can do to make that better?
Speaker 1:And just kind of like how my own experience with feeling misaligned led me to really commit to my startup, which was actually a huge blessing and it's what made me fall back in love with medicine in the end anyway. So full circle. Wow, that's excellent. I know We'll see, and this podcast is what helped me fall back in love with healthcare again. I love that, yeah, cause I really. Last year I was sort of like I don't know, I've always been in love with healthcare.
Speaker 1:I know you have, but I fell out of love with it. I just I got tired of everybody not wanting to change things or saying like, oh, it's just so broken we're never going to fix it Give up, why even try yeah? And you know, and then we were doing consulting engagements. I was like oh, can we do something a little bit bigger?
Speaker 1:I know we have to do the incremental stuff, and we'll do it, but can we at least talk about the big stuff? So here we are. So anything else about Vibe, any observations or anything you want to share?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I love the optimism that everyone has. Like you said, people do believe like we're going to make change and people are asking such awesome questions, like they are interested to hear what physicians have to say and what patients have to say, and that's great, like everybody's on the same page and we all just work together.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, so you come in If you can kind of just get past the monstrosity of the hall. But what's great about it is there is this event I feel like has a lot of really good energy and it's. It has a little bit of a JP Morgan vibe to it Definitely, but then it has that sort of comfort piece. Okay, dave.
Speaker 2:Dave wants to ask it.
Speaker 1:Yes, so what is it that you're passionate about that you think can affect real change? In health care.
Speaker 2:All caps Real in all caps yes.
Speaker 2:Short answer compassion. And what I mean by that is seeking to understand where the other person is coming from in every situation. So you know, as a physician, where is my patient coming from, like, what, what is bringing them here? And you know, really understanding what their pain point is. But that's also true with solutions like right with with companies, and, like you know, understanding what, what, what, what is it that you need for me? How can I help you? And then it turns out that there are not always, you know, two sides. Actually everybody can be on the same page and work towards the same goal. And and then I say compassion also, because for me that's what I felt was missing a lot. It was kind of forced out of me, I think in some ways as a practice, practicing position and it, and that's why you kind of go into it. So that's really hard, and so that's what made me, that's what led me to really, um, you know, develop thimble. It's like, okay, let's have a little compassion. Yes, needle procedure, sure lots of people can get through.
Speaker 1:Yeah so tell us about thimble, because we didn't get to talk about thimble.
Speaker 2:So tell us about thimble so thimble, we are basically alleviating the pain and stress of needle procedures. So, yeah, very simple, but no one's talking about it. So actually 60% of people yes, adults and kids, oh yeah Is afraid of needle procedures at this point. And then they're not getting the vaccines, medications and blood draws they need to stay healthy. So it's a big deal and you know, people kind of didn't really believe this was such a thing. But then when the COVID pandemic hit, oxford did this study that showed that.
Speaker 1:Here we go again, oxford. Sorry, we're not going to interrupt you. They're getting all the hype. No, no, no, no, no. I will tell you in a minute, so keep going, Keep going yeah.
Speaker 2:So they did a study and it showed that if we had actually addressed injection anxiety, we could have been saved in the US alone. And the World Health Organization put out a mandate in 2015 asking for this, because they know that pain mitigation is an important strategy to reduce things like vaccine hesitancy and all of the other things. So it was like it's time like let's just get this out there and have some compassion for people when they have to come in and do all this stuff, because almost every medical procedure involves starts with a needle, you know. So let's make it easier for people and let's repair this kind of broken relationship that we have between physicians and all the health care force and patients. Wow.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming by. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's just. You know. We'll tell you about the common theme. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's just. You know. We'll tell you about the common theme. No, we'll say really quick and then we'll, we'll talk more. I know day of stress because we're on a time schedule here, but the common theme is we have heard in almost every answer some way the COVID epidemic being a tipping point in healthcare for something that it, it changed. I mean almost everybody has said well, covid impacted this within After the pandemic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because of the pandemic.
Speaker 1:So it's been, it's been really interesting to hear that in all of these answers. So, yeah, so thanks for coming on and and I'm so happy you wore the wig.
Speaker 2:Yes, I hope I don't regret this and I'm excited to have you on, for we'll have you back for a whole episode.
Speaker 1:Hopefully you'll put up with us for a longer period of time.
Speaker 2:Love it Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.